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v-un-v
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 Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2010 8:43 am Post subject:
Demian He's been here before. Why the new login? |
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Demian- this dude selling Cliff K2 clones for Synthi's, well he's been on this forum before, under a different name, selling panel meters (for synthi's).
I did write this in response (see below), but felt I should talk to the mod helpers first- especially as people like Ian were saying that cloning a current and still made instrument was 'stealing', which I agree on now- especially after talking directly to Robin Wood himself on the blower.
| v-un-v wrote: | Cut the crap. I have a honours degree in product design engineering. This is not 'it'. Anyone (and I mean anyone) with a decent copy of a decent ACIS-based modelling application, can go into production to reproduce these parts if they have enough capital and market demand. China is only there on our doorstep.
I would imagine that these knobs would be only needed by those who were either repairing a Synthi, or making a clone. Anyway, haven't you advertised on the forum before? Under a different name? Selling VCS3 parts? So why the new log-in? I spoke to Robin Wood of EMS on the phone personally, and according to Robin, although he's behind a little, is still manufacturing Synthi's.
electro-music.com have already made it clear that cloning of current machines is unacceptable. |
link here;
http://www.electro-music.com/forum/topic-43962.html
It also seems crazy that we already have brilliant synth kits available right on this forum. I don't want the whole world to get the message that it is acceptable on electro-music.com to rip other people off.
Folks?
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blue hell
Former site admin
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| Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2010 9:37 am Post subject:
Re: Demian He's been here before. Why the new login? |
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| v-un-v wrote: | | Demian- this dude selling Cliff K2 clones for Synthi's, well he's been on this forum before, under a different name, selling panel meters (for synthi's). |
I do not think it is the same person ... but I cant find that "panel meter" one .. can you point me to it please? |
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blue hell
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| Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2010 9:43 am Post subject:
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Also I'm not sure the knob deal is a rip off, actually I think that for a run of 1000 the price would be just about right.
But dont get me started on the sillyness of the endeavor  |
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v-un-v
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| Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2010 11:14 am Post subject:
Re: Demian He's been here before. Why the new login? |
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| Blue Hell wrote: | | v-un-v wrote: | | Demian- this dude selling Cliff K2 clones for Synthi's, well he's been on this forum before, under a different name, selling panel meters (for synthi's). |
I do not think it is the same person ... but I cant find that "panel meter" one .. can you point me to it please? |
Oh it is the same person!
http://www.oengaboenga.net/electronic-music/
Scroll down, and you will find. I've been at this dudes website before.
Actually it was the way he spoke to me after, I was nice to him. Maybe it's a Dutch thing?? I wanted to punch his lights out!!
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IST NICHT FÜR GEWERKEN BEI DUMMKOPFEN. DER RUBBERNECKEN SIGHTSEEREN KEEPEN DAS COTTONPICKEN HÄNDER IN DAS POCKETS MUSS.
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v-un-v
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| Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2010 11:16 am Post subject:
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I mean, he could be genuine, but why the new account?  It makes no sense.
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IST NICHT FÜR GEWERKEN BEI DUMMKOPFEN. DER RUBBERNECKEN SIGHTSEEREN KEEPEN DAS COTTONPICKEN HÄNDER IN DAS POCKETS MUSS.
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blue hell
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| Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2010 11:24 am Post subject:
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| Damn you're right - looks like it is the same one - not only different account but different IP as well ... ok .. yeah he is reacting a bit in a dutch way indeed innit |
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v-un-v
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| Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2010 11:31 am Post subject:
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Yesch, it must be that damn schtrong nederweet agin. I muscht chill and drink schum more beer innit! Schtop typing dis schit, getting evryone worked up into schutch a panik! 
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IST NICHT FÜR GEWERKEN BEI DUMMKOPFEN. DER RUBBERNECKEN SIGHTSEEREN KEEPEN DAS COTTONPICKEN HÄNDER IN DAS POCKETS MUSS.
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yusynth
Joined: Nov 24, 2005
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| Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2010 7:23 am Post subject:
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By selling Cliff K2 knobs clones, the guy is not infringing Robin Wood's copyright but the copyright of another company : Cliff components which by the way is still selling these knobs.
http://www.cliffuk.co.uk/products/knobs/index.htm
Now personally I see no problem selling parts for VCS3 or AKS. It is quite different from selling a full clone.
There is no (legal) problem either with somebody selling electronic clones as long as the look of the front panel is different and they are not named EMS Synthi or EMS VCS3 which are the only things that are actually under copyright.
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v-un-v
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| Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2010 1:09 pm Post subject:
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I shall spread the word!
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IST NICHT FÜR GEWERKEN BEI DUMMKOPFEN. DER RUBBERNECKEN SIGHTSEEREN KEEPEN DAS COTTONPICKEN HÄNDER IN DAS POCKETS MUSS.
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v-un-v
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| Posted: Fri Sep 24, 2010 3:29 am Post subject:
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| demian wrote: | Hi,
I have only one account, i assume you can check this in your adminpanel somehow.
Kind regards,
demian |
I really don't like this bloke one bit. Why only the "Hi"? What about "Hi Jan", or even some reply in Dutch, to at least make him sound like one of us? The "I only have one account"? Bollocks! This guy just sounds like a trader posing behind a specially engineered website, to him look kosher. 1000 "cheapo" knobs all 4 notes a piece? Come on!  This is my opinion anyway.
Anyway, those panel meter photos are identical to the previous posted pix. Does this guy think that we were born yesterday? 
Oh yeah- "Kind regards". A classic givaway!
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IST NICHT FÜR GEWERKEN BEI DUMMKOPFEN. DER RUBBERNECKEN SIGHTSEEREN KEEPEN DAS COTTONPICKEN HÄNDER IN DAS POCKETS MUSS.
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blue hell
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| Posted: Fri Sep 24, 2010 3:35 am Post subject:
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| I need his other personality, but cant find it .... do you remember who it was Tom? |
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v-un-v
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| Posted: Fri Sep 24, 2010 6:28 am Post subject:
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I can't remember
I'll have a wade through the archives 
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IST NICHT FÜR GEWERKEN BEI DUMMKOPFEN. DER RUBBERNECKEN SIGHTSEEREN KEEPEN DAS COTTONPICKEN HÄNDER IN DAS POCKETS MUSS.
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blue hell
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| Posted: Fri Sep 24, 2010 6:35 am Post subject:
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| v-un-v wrote: | I can't remember
I'll have a wade through the archives |
Don't! Its ok ... I'll believe him .. he did have up panel meters before, but said he erased that message also he said that his previous nick was this nick reversed ... i don't like him too much either sofar, but that's another thing |
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fonik
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| Posted: Fri Sep 24, 2010 3:31 pm Post subject:
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| Blue Hell wrote: | | i don't like him too much either sofar, but that's another thing |
you are a wise man - and it's this integrity that i like at electro-music.com. thank you, jan. just saying...
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Tech Buddy at Random*Source |
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v-un-v
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| Posted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 8:37 am Post subject:
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| fonik wrote: | | Blue Hell wrote: | | i don't like him too much either sofar, but that's another thing |
you are a wise man - and it's this integrity that i like at electro-music.com. thank you, jan. just saying... |
Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be much integrity left anymore. Here or anywhere.  Sorry
I can understand why all the mods have shy'd away from my head to head with Don and Demian- but it has this time left me really depressed, especially as like Moogs to the American's are, Synthi's are to us British (and French too!).
I've had a recent personal conversation with Bob Williams (the boss/ CEO of Analogue Systems Ltd), over this VCS3 clone topic, and although Bob is behind me 100%, he feels it's a very fine line too. He also thinks (and I do too- very much so), that this really is Robin's fault too- for not getting his shit together over keeping up with manufacturing demands etc. I can totally understand why people do want to clone. Bob also said that a lot about this instrument though, is myth, because it is also one of the most difficult instruments to setup & use, let alone trying to get patches to repeat consistently. Looks great though- just like a piece of lab equipment. That's most probably the charm. 
I wonder what would happen on electro-music.com if we were to talk about cloning an Ondes Martenot? I know we have had many in depth discussions about this on the forum, but I have full respect now of the Maurice Martenot estate, being absolutely resolute with the protection over the Ondes' schematics, especially after that conversation with Don Erskine, who I have absolutely no sympathy with over his failed business. His attitude over not protecting intellectual property concerning his business, to me, spoke volumes- even though the very thought over say Microsoft's absolute hold over its intellectual property also leaves me feeling sick.
Needed the rant. Thanks guys
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yusynth
Joined: Nov 24, 2005
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| Posted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 9:10 am Post subject:
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| v-un-v wrote: | | I wonder what would happen on electro-music.com if we were to talk about cloning an Ondes Martenot? I know we have had many in depth discussions about this on the forum, but I have full respect now of the Maurice Martenot estate, being absolutely resolute with the protection over the Ondes' schematics, |
Speaking of Ondes Martenot (I am a lucky owner of one )and a possible revival, a craftman in France is producingthe Ondea a modern version (soli-state components) but it osts more than an original when you're lucky enough to find one. Anyway, another track is more interesting the heirs of Maurice Martenot, who own the copyright for the Ondes Martenot have given a licence to Jean-Louis Dierstein (consider him as the equivalent in France for Kevin Lightner, that's the one guy in France where you can have your vintage synth serviced and repaired) to produce a line of Ondes Martenot, this is expected for 2012 I think. http://dierstein.fr/
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v-un-v
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| Posted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 9:22 am Post subject:
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Thomas Bloch has been sending me stuff too. I guess this is the same guy? He is supposed to be an engineer for JMJ?
Thomas was asking for 12,000 euros, which seems like a bargain. I would have an Ondes over a VCS3 any day!
PS you are a very lucky man!
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IST NICHT FÜR GEWERKEN BEI DUMMKOPFEN. DER RUBBERNECKEN SIGHTSEEREN KEEPEN DAS COTTONPICKEN HÄNDER IN DAS POCKETS MUSS.
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yusynth
Joined: Nov 24, 2005
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| Posted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 10:22 am Post subject:
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| v-un-v wrote: | Thomas Bloch has been sending me stuff too. I guess this is the same guy? He is supposed to be an engineer for JMJ?
Thomas was asking for 12,000 euros, which seems like a bargain. I would have an Ondes over a VCS3 any day!
PS you are a very lucky man! |
I have been in touch with Thomas Bloch too because I was looking for detailed views of the Palm HP. I am missing one (I only have the main HP) and I am willing to build a Palm myself to complete my Ondes Martenot and he has been very helpful to me. Thanks to Thomas I can draw blue-print and build my own.
Yes 12000€ is about the "normal" price for Ondes Martenot. As I said I am a lucky bastard and I bought mine (perfectly working) for 5000€ back in april...
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v-un-v
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| Posted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 10:44 am Post subject:
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| yusynth wrote: | | As I said I am a lucky bastard and I bought mine (perfectly working) for back in april... |
Oooooooooooooh!!
Four grand!!??! 
Actually £10,000 isn't that much- especially if you compare prices of cellos these days!
BTW, I am actually very happy for you!
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IST NICHT FÜR GEWERKEN BEI DUMMKOPFEN. DER RUBBERNECKEN SIGHTSEEREN KEEPEN DAS COTTONPICKEN HÄNDER IN DAS POCKETS MUSS.
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