Trying to route RingMod so I can hear it only but hearing no

[rokuez]

I just finished reading the user manual. Haven't gotten to the tips and tricks pdf yet.

I wanted to try routing the ring mod so that I could hear the filtered and unfiltered ring mod simultaneously (or just the filter & then the unfiltered) as described on page 188 (RING MOD signal routing)

I've followed all the steps described in that section, and I'm not hearing anything.

I have osc 1, 2 completely silent, pre/post filter ring mod knob turned up, post filter ring mod led off, pre filter ring mod led on being modulated by env 1 but i'm hearing nothing.

I've tried it with filter bypass led on/off, pre filter ring mod led on/off not sure what i'm doing wrong.

[sunny pedaal]

try in steps:
1 default patch
2 osc off , ringmod turned on in prefiltermixerknob
make sure filters are open/bypassed.
you should now hear the ( filtered) ringmod sound
( if you don't hear anything make sure the filters and vca are on , try the same path with a noise or so to get sound)
3turn the prefiltermixer ringmod down and turn the (prefilter)pot on the postfiltermixer up. make sure it's switched to ringmod.
now you should hear the ( unfiltered) ringmod sound.
4 combine the two sounds of 2 + 3
5 start adding modulation on several parts and /or filter the firstpart etc

a bit simplistic maybe in explaining, point is to build it up rather then putting down a complete receipy and then test if it works.
succes, it should work this way

[kpatz]

Do you have any waveforms selected on the oscillators?

Both oscillators need at least 1 waveform selected in order to give the ring modulator something to... uh, modulate.

You'd mute the oscillators directly at the pre-filter mix by turning their levels all the way down to get just the ring mod.

[rokuez]

thank you very much for those instructions sunny pedaal now i'm hearing some noise. But I still don't understand precisely what I'm hearing.

Is it simply the sound of the oscillator being ring modulated, as compared to Oscillator sound + oscillator sound being ring modulated?

[kpatz]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ring_modulator

The ring modulator takes the two oscillator's signals and essentially multiplies them together. The net effect is similar to amplitude modulation.

Because of this, both oscillators have to have at least one waveform selected in order for the RM to work, since with multiplication, zero on either input = zero on the output.

It's called a "ring" modulator because of the "ring" of diodes that the old analog circuits used. It has nothing to do with a ringing sound, though they are often used for bell-like timbres since it brings out the harmonics in the sound.

The ring modulator level on the pre-filter mix, and the post-filter mix is just the output of the ring modulator. If you want to hear the oscillators straight AND the ring modulation together, turn up the appropriate levels in the pre-filter mix. The ring mod level in the post-filter mix sends the ring mod's output past the filters, while the pre-filter mix sends it through the filters.

[wildbill]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ring_modulator


'...Thus, in the basic case where two sine waves of frequencies f1 and f2 (f1 < f2) are multiplied, two new sine waves are created, with one at f1 + f2 and the other at f2 − f1. The two new waves are unlikely to be harmonically related and (in a well designed ring modulator) the original signals are not present. It is this that gives the ring modulator its unique tones.

Intermodulation products can be generated by carefully selecting and changing the frequency of the two input waveforms...'



^^^^^^^ This is what I remember being taught - that what you'll get are the sum and difference of the input frequencies.

So, if you input osc 1 at 150hz and osc 2 at 200 hz, what you'll hear is a tone containing 350hz (sum), and 50hz (difference), which won't sound much like the original signals.
The audio examples in the link give a good idea of what to listen for. It also helps to change one of the frequencies over time, either manually with the knob, or with an lfo/envelope or whatever to hear what's actually happening.