I'm going to try just placing different inductors that I have salvaged in series with the output of some lunetta stuff to see if the square waves become a little more interesting. Has anyone tried this kind of thing?
Sounds like a great idea to me. It should roll off that digital "sparkle" really well. If you've got two outputs, why not try putting them each through an "air core" inductor with a nice lump of soft iron coupling the core of the two inductors? Might create some nice softening of both. Very analogue. _________________ What makes a space ours, is what we put there, and what we do there.
Some time ago I was looking at different filters and I came across the same video. I did try to make a inductor/capacitor or LC filter but I never really got any interesting results. But I was just jamming in random inductors in random places, a little more care and thought might give some great results. _________________ There he goes. One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, and too rare to die.
Hunter S. Thompson movies noise
I used inductors a couple of time because I got a bunch from an old EQ I salvaged for parts.
I used it in my UM-TSS drum machine bass just passing the kick sound through it in order to soften the sound a bit.
I also used it going to ground with a pot for a lowpass filter in a delay circuit. The sound goes through a PT2399 wired up in the echo method in the datasheet, and then the passive low pass inductor circuit warms the output sound a bit. I find that it lowers the volume level less then when I use a capacitor. _________________ JacobWatters.com
I also used it going to ground with a pot for a lowpass filter in a delay circuit. The sound goes through a PT2399 wired up in the echo method in the datasheet, and then the passive low pass inductor circuit warms the output sound a bit. I find that it lowers the volume level less then when I use a capacitor.
Wow. Any chance of sound grabs, pics, vids or schemes of this Cyno? Love to see/hear how the inductor changes the output.
I can do a quick demo tonight with the reverb unit. The drum sound goes through a bunch of filters, so it will be difficult to hear the changes for just the inductor. _________________ JacobWatters.com
I've had luck with this:http://www.geofex.com/article_folders/wahpedl/wahped.htm
I used a 600mH inductor, a 5v supply, and 2N2222 for the transistors.
You can "modulate" it, with the output of an r-2r, at the node connecting the inductor, 3 resistors, and cap.
It doesn't provide a lot of filtering with the value i used, but i just wanted to roll off some of the high frequency resonance from the delay loop.
Here is what happens in the mp3:
0-16sec: Clean sound
16sec: reverb with no filtering
26sec: Start to slowly turn down the pot for the inductor to increase filtering
36sec: start to turn up the aux send to the reverb on my mixer to compensate for the inductor lowering the volume
So if you listen to 16sec and then skip to 40sec you can hear that the latter has a nice warm reverb.
Joined: Feb 02, 2009 Posts: 515 Location: London area
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Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2012 5:52 pm Post subject:
My first attempts last night didn't sound very different,
Unfortunately my scope doesn't want to power up, maybe it blew a fuse. Will need to hook up to the soundcard.
Here's a pic of most of the ones I found. Some of them are variable, which got me excited, but I think they're all too low values, in the uH, where something in mH is needed...maybe, I don't know.
One is a crystal just for fun, i guess it isn't really an inductor but a resonator?
I just placed the inductor in series with the output, I'll try some filter designs next I guess.
I think I used 3mH and it doesn't filter a lot. You will need high or have it rigged another way to more it work better. I think they can be used with opamps because the EQ had a bunch of opamp chips too. _________________ JacobWatters.com
Joined: May 18, 2010 Posts: 308 Location: Oak Park, IL
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Posted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 4:57 am Post subject:
I'm a guitar and amp freak so I'll give ya all I know regarding inductors (which ain't much ):
I have used them in wah circuits, modded wahs and fixed Q wahs. The Fasel inductor is sort of a Holy Grail for some; that inductor runs at a optimal 500mH for it's trademark sweep. Inductor based wah pedals have more resonance, beef, warmth, mojo, etc. than twin T filters to some of us gear snobs.
A lot of debate regarding which inductor gives the best tone because we all hear a bit different. Also, the inductor wah circuit as a whole is more important than just which brand of inductor is used. Again, lots of forum fights over this Holy Grail of tone stuff.
Anyways, back to our needs. Yes, as jcintheus eluded to: you should try something way bigger than those little guys. _________________ Zontar Prevails!
Joined: Feb 02, 2009 Posts: 515 Location: London area
Audio files: 2
Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 1:33 am Post subject:
Something interesting also is the relationship between the inductor and the size of the capacitor. If you look at that deephaven link there's a calculator for figuring out what values you need to filter at a certain frequency. Maybe a big cap will compensate for a small inductor.
Haven't had a chance to play with it again but will this week.
I have nothing to contribute to this thread, but just saying that I'm keeping my eye on it... I also salvaged a whole bunch of inductors from various things I was ripping apart... not sure why... they are fascinating and come in so many shapes and sizes.
They are one of the simplest components... a coil of wire, essentially... but somehow quite magical. They seem to have little place in the Lunetta / logic chip world, so I'd be really curious as to what you folks come up with.
I've always been fascinated by inductors of all kinds.
Next time you've got something breadboarded up, and I mean anything.
Replace part of a resistor at the start of the circuit with one coil off a small audio transformer. Then replace part of a resistor at the end of the circuit with the other side of the transformer. Whether it's a filter or a fuzz circuit, you can get some very subtle anomalies happening.
BTW I think inductors are very much allowed in a Lunetta. I'm not sure why? Maybe because it is, in effect, just a long wire! _________________ What makes a space ours, is what we put there, and what we do there.
Also because so much of a Lunetta sound is often very sharp square waves, and it sometimes needs this harsh, "brilliance" toned down to some extent. _________________ What makes a space ours, is what we put there, and what we do there.
Some early organs I've seen take the square waves straight off the TOG and dividers and then straight into an enormous board covered with inductors (some are aircore bobbins up to 40mm across) and capacitors.
So the timbre changes produced by different footages are not just from emphasizing certain harmonics of the squarewave, but also by attenuating everything else, through the use of these LC networks.
So, I'd definitley be looking at the larger inductor values. Anything smaller than a 1.5cm cube is probably only going to effect Radio Frequencies. I actually made that mistake when I first bought them. I got the uH types which are about the size of a 1/2W resistor. They seemed to have absolutely no effect on the workings of a fuzz box! ........ Then I went back to the books, and found that I needed upper mH range through to whole Hs. _________________ What makes a space ours, is what we put there, and what we do there.
BTW, when I said inductors seem to have little place in Lunetta's, I meant that I hadn't seen any circuits involving them, not that they should or shouldn't be used.
Hmmm, I'll have to look up how to determine the values of some of these I've salvaged... my multimeter doesn't do that. I also ripped out of some VCR or something a metal box filled with air coils.
I agree that sometimes the harshness of these square waves can be toned down, but I guess I went the glide and triangle waveshaper route rather than the frequency-filtering one. Although recently I was thinking it would be nice to do a bit of that to emphasize certain interesting sounds.
Hmmm #2: If there's an LC like there's an RC, is there an L/2L like there's an R/2R?
Uncle Krunkus is right : we talk about "Henrys" for filters in the audio range. All Ls you can see on the posted picture and what you can savage from todays electronic waste is uH or best case mH - forget it....but : small 50/60Hz transformers eg from (older) wallplug PS show "Henrys" on the primary side. They also have a remarkable winding capacitance, so the have resonance frequencies in the range of 1k..20kHz without additional components ! Paralleling C's brings them down to the base range. Secondary windings are also useful: a DC current can drive the iron core towards saturation. This will reduce primary inductance and rise res.freq. and also cause signal distortion.
I attached a circuit that I started experimenting with years ago. Try different transformers ( 1..2.5VA range) and add Rs (series) and Cs (to GND) to bend frequency response. BTW : CV input is not CMOS compatible; needs low impedance drive (small power amp or lab power supply for DC control)
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Joined: Feb 02, 2009 Posts: 515 Location: London area
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Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 3:16 pm Post subject:
Awesome info, thanks, there's a lot to learn about this stuff.
Sorry if it's getting too far away from CMOS, the original idea was to just stick an inductor in there but now I guess I'm on this Wah research line.
Currently looking for info on those little 3ohm-3ohm audio coupling transformers from radio shack and jaycar, the vendors don't list henries, just impedances, but they do list frequency responses sometimes.
well, this looks interesting. I have an old wahwah (disassembled since it didn't filter well, but made much noise) with a 500mH inductor lying around somewhere... was thinking of maybe, once I know my way around well enough, i might repair it or whether it might be smarter to just use all the useable parts and (re-)build a filter with that...
i'll keep watching what you come up with to see what i'll do!
... still a lot to learn and try and time has been sparse this last weeks... _________________ ~~~
http://blog.ivorybunker.com/ http://tomoroh.ivorybunker.com/ http://tomorohhidari.bandcamp.com
Joined: Oct 13, 2007 Posts: 6221 Location: near Austin, Tx, USA
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Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 8:50 am Post subject:
I like this thread! It's fun to see the range of experience that everyone has from wtf is an inductor to talk of transformer parasitic capacitances resonating with the core, nice! I could chime in on several topics here but I'll mention just one to be careful about when using inductors: ShOcKiNg CiRcUiTs!
If you pump some DC for a while into an inductor you build up it's magnetic field to some value, then if you open circuit the connection, say with an analog switch like a CD4052 (?) or CD4051 (?) or similar, then the current cannot change instantaneously and the collapsing magnetic field produces a giganourmous voltage spike. ZAP! goes the chip! In fact, it would be fun to have a thread where we designed the circuits that self-destruct in this way in the most audio-spectacular sound, hahahhaha!
So be careful with those inductors, don't yank em around or you'll blow stuff up!
Les _________________ "Let's make noise for peace." - Kijjaz
With a classic 40106 oscillator you have the output feed back to a charging cap to ground right?
Well, I'm very interested in the "starve a whole 40106" oscillator bank idea, and I was trying to work out a way to make it sound better. I've settled on just three oscillators per chip, however, that leaves three inverters wasted.
What if we add two inverters to the standard oscillator, so the output of the first inverter goes to a second, then a third which is the right phase to feedback to the first. The first needs the cap and resistor, but what if the second one is coupled with a small inductor? (uH->40mH?)
I reason that this could create a low pass filter which will force the second inverter to be slightly delayed from the first. If we take the delayed out and mix it with two standard 1 inverter oscillators on the same chip, it should add some nice lower frequencies and force the first two to stay out of sync with the third.
Does this make sense?
Is it feasible?
I'll be finding out real soon, no doubt. _________________ What makes a space ours, is what we put there, and what we do there.
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........ 
Then I went back to the books, and found that I needed upper mH range through to whole Hs. 
