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elektro80
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 Posted: Mon Jan 31, 2005 5:03 pm Post subject:
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...those expensive boxes.. yeah.. business as usual
them boxes ain´t the problem.. it is that persistent Lexicon disease that is still around..
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Kassen
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Joined: Jul 06, 2004
Posts: 7678
Location: The Hague, NL
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| Posted: Mon Jan 31, 2005 6:07 pm Post subject:
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| mosc wrote: | | Well, if you use it like that, then I've got no problem with it. It's those expensive boxes they sell with the butting that says Carnagie Hall that bug me. I'd be interested in hearing what you guys are doing with convolution. Maybe you could post a few mp3s. |
Nah! Convolution is just another "fun with matrix multiplication" technique. It´s essentially the same as fir filters. Those boxes can´t hold a candle to a simple software tool (I use a free one called "Hog") because those boxes don´t eat home brew impulse responses. I´ve been creating weird sounds by convolving piano lines with digerido notes and stuff like that, it´s fun.
There´s realy no reason at all to buy expensive boxes for this, convolution was here before it was a marketing buzzword, it´ll be here after the hype´s gone too. When I use the word I mean it in it´s technological sense, not as a marketing buzzword meaning "we have a couple of mb of i.r.´s, a dsp that can do matrix manipulations realy fast, you don´t understand it so you are going to pay" or something along those lines. I hate that too. The technology is realy nice for both realism and versatility in reverbs though and it´ll get you oceans of vaguely aditive sounding textures with a little creative use.
Play, can I ask what you are using for your own custom reverbs? I´ve been fooling around with Tassman for this a little but Tassman could use a few extra inputs to realy get this going. I´d love to hear some examples of your technique and could you kindly go into the relation between this and mastering? You see, from time to time I do pretend to be a mastering engineer....
Elektro, for looping delays a cheap Lexicon is realy, realy nice.
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paul e.
Joined: Sep 22, 2003
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Location: toronto, canada
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| Posted: Mon Jan 31, 2005 10:45 pm Post subject:
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| Mohoyoho wrote: | I like reverb.
Ofcourse it all depends on the track. Surf music wouldn't be surf music with out the splattering spring reverb.
I like space music, and I think it needs reverb to help create vastness and distance. In the mix some tracks need more reverb that others. I wouldn't want the whole mix to go through the same deep reverb.
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2 good points....
in both cases we are not talking about an attempt to emulate or come off as 'real' .. that spring reverb sound you mentioned is just really funky and not meant to fool anyone into thinking the guitar is in sme kind of reverberant space
and in space music, the use of reverb to create 'impossible' or imagined worlds is also very effective
i just draw the line at creating a 'soundstage' for recorded material by adding a digital reverb..for this i would endeavour to use a real soundstage with real room characteristics
otherwise, to solve certain problems, i would go for the techniques mosc mentioned...more subtle..maybe even just EQ ...
actually that is an over-looked method..creating space with EQ
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paul e.
Joined: Sep 22, 2003
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| Posted: Mon Jan 31, 2005 10:50 pm Post subject:
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this convultion thing may have possibilities too.... not maybe so much to emulate carnegie hall [that was funny, mosc] but something different..
yeah it would be cool to hear some mp3's of experimental convultion..
anyone.. ?
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elektro80
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| Posted: Tue Feb 01, 2005 1:26 am Post subject:
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Experimental convolution? Well I have a few sounds here and there. Nothing special. Just cool sounds. I am getting the results I want so this is hardly experimental.
I was making impulse recordings with rubberbands for some noises inside "Funeral Pyre".
Brian uses Altiverb a lot for some seriously weird things. I guess both Zoetrope and Carbn Core are full of such sounds. I can recommend Zoetrope. A real toe tapper.
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deknow
Joined: Sep 15, 2004
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| Posted: Tue Feb 01, 2005 9:44 am Post subject:
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hey all,
although it's been about a year since i experemented with it, i had a lot of fun with sir and using drumloops as "impulse response samples"....imagine a room that a gunshot echos back as a "big beat drum loop"....now what happens when you sing in that room? i have some funny donkey "brey" samples that are also fun for this.
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mosc
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| Posted: Tue Feb 01, 2005 10:11 am Post subject:
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This sounds interesting. All of it. Please post mp3s. Thanks.
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Fozzie
Joined: Jun 04, 2004
Posts: 875
Location: Near Wageningen, the Netherlands
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| Posted: Tue Feb 01, 2005 11:13 am Post subject:
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| Cymbal samples also make great weird metallic reverbs in SIR or any other impulse response plugin. SIR is THE free IR plug AFAI am concerned (AFAIAC?). See www.knufinke.de/sir/index_en.html |
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Kassen
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Location: The Hague, NL
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| Posted: Tue Feb 01, 2005 2:42 pm Post subject:
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I like HOG
http://music.calarts.edu/hog/
It´s free and simple.
Mosc, I did a lot of experiements but haven´t yet sat down and based a real composition on them that would properly show off the power of the technique in a apealing way. I´d sugest that you grab one of these free tools and convolve a simple one instrument piece with a sample rich in spectral content. You´ll soon get a feel for it.
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trash
Joined: Aug 27, 2004
Posts: 69
Location: Brighton YAY!
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| Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2005 1:08 pm Post subject:
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convolution rocks!!
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staticinsect
Joined: Mar 20, 2005
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| Posted: Fri Mar 25, 2005 3:37 am Post subject:
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I'm a bit of a reverb... and delay... and FX in general nut myself... so my views would probably be at odds with some here... but where it concerns forms of music where the sense of a real acoustic space is NOT a priority, then as far as I'm concerned anything goes where reverb is concerned 
one thing that can be fun to try is to simply put a delay on one output channel of a stereo reverb and don't necessarily pan them in stereo either...
| Quote: | Like for instance, a reverb with delay length of 100ms placed on a short sound and the same verb on the same sound but with a delay length half that, or a third of it, near each other in time. Would the sound with shorter delay be perceived as higher up? closer? smaller? or is it just pseudo-mystical claptrap : |
there IS something to this... not necessarily even related to reverb, but to the Haas effect... basically, the human ear won't perceive any discrete echoes with delays of 40ms or less... BUT, a sound arriving 40ms or less later to one ear than the other is essentially how we localize sounds... so if, for example, you pan one sound at "9 o'clock" and then take a mult of that sound, delay it for between 20-40ms (any less than 20ms will give you the comb filtering effects that cause flanging) and pan it to "3 o'clock", your ear will localize the sound as being at "9 o'clock"... so you don't necessarily need a reverb to create space and/or localization in a mix - sometimes a short delay time will do the trick!
and of course, the same principle applied to the same sound through two reverbs, one with longer pre-delay and decay times than the other would probably have a similar effect, while adding increased distance and depth to the sound-field... definitely some fun to be had with experimentation...
even though they are often used for this, a reverb can be much more than the "mistake-masking-machine" it is so often and unfortunately used as...
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